Host: Suzanne Rust
[Uncanny Valley theme music by The Drift]
Suzanne: [00:00:13] This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm your host, Suzanne Rust.
When you're in the right place with the right people for you, your body knows it. Your nervous system is calm, you feel centered, you feel connected, and you feel like yourself. Now, the road to that place isn't always easy to navigate, but getting there makes it all worthwhile. In this hour, we'll hear four stories from people who found that right fit.
When home isn't a welcoming place, it's important to have a good neighbor who can take you in. Julie Baker shared her story with us at a SLAM in Boston, where we partnered with WBUR and PRX. Here's Julie, live at The Moth.
[cheers and applause]
Julie: [00:00:58] Every day I watched the clock. I couldn't wait for him to arrive. And when he finally did, he was smiling and he was singing and he was talking about what a beautiful day it was, even when I could see out my window that it was raining some days. And then, he came in and he hung up his suit jacket and he took down a sweater and he zipped it up and he sat down and he took off his shoes [audience chuckles] and he tossed them in the air and put on his sneakers. And he was so happy. And for the next 30 minutes, I was happy, too. [audience chuckles] I sat inches from the TV, watching Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. [audience chuckles]
I was four. It was 1968. We had just moved again, and I was the new kid. I was thrilled when I discovered that next door was Tracy Paresso. Tracy was four, too. Her birthday was just a month away from mine. We hung out all the time. Or, rather, I basically went to her house every day and stayed there most of the day. Her parents were really, really nice. Her mom made cookies, and her dad hatched baby chicks under a grow light in the garage. [audience laughter] They didn't scream at her when we decided to have a yard sale and sell our parents' stuff [audience laughter] out on the road. When the mailman tattled on us, they just laughed.
My mom was usually not really paying attention. She had a lot on her plate. My brother was six, I was four, my sister was two, and my baby brother was one. She was always tired and she was always mad. She didn't have a lot of time for me. So, I loved the Paresso’s. When September came and my brother started first grade, Tracy was starting preschool. So, everybody, including me, thought I would be starting preschool. Tracy and I were the same age. But my mother said no, that preschool was private, which costs money, and that preschool was just for children who didn't know how to read. She implied that Tracy wasn't very bright.
And that since I knew how to read, I wasn't going to preschool. I was devastated. Devastated. I was going to be home alone all day. My mother was desperate. And even though she didn't like TV, PBS was okay. So, she planted me there in front of the TV. I don't remember the first time that I met Mr. Rogers, but I loved him immediately. I loved most of all the Land of Make Believe. I loved King Friday, and Queen Sarah, and Lady Elaine Fairchild [audience chuckles] and Prince Tuesday. I loved it all. I would sit there when I would hear the trolley, that it was coming to the Land of Make Believe, [gasps] I would start to clap my hands really softly, because I didn't want to wake up my dad. He worked third shift and he would sleep during the day.
He would come home from work, he would pour his special orange juice, which I knew better than to drink, [audience chuckles] and he would complain about all the fucking assholes at work, [audience chuckles] and then he would go to bed. We knew better than to disturb him, because if we woke him up, he would yell how he was going to bounce us off the walls, which I always thought was really funny, because I thought I was going to turn into a Super Bowl. Mr. Rogers never told anybody to shut the fuck up. [audience chuckles] Instead, he told me that I was special and that he liked me just the way I was, and I believed him.
Fast forward 30 years. I have my own little girl. I'm working for a public television show, and I'm doing marketing. When I find out that Mr. Rogers is going to be animated as an aardvark on Arthur, I am thrilled that I am even remotely related to it. It was like six degrees of separation, [audience chuckles] and I was only two. Then when they told me that he was coming for a special visit and that members of the Arthur team could be in the room while they presented him with this framed animated cel of him as an aardvark. I showed up early, like it was a general admission Rolling Stones concert. [audience laughter]
I sat at the table. He walked in and he was older, but he still had that kind face and that smile. I sat at the table and I just hung on his every word. And then, they told us that if we wanted him to sign something, he could stay for just a little while. He stayed for the whole long line of people. I waited in line, and I had rehearsed what I was going to say to him. I was going to tell him how special he was, and how I was this lonely little girl, and he made me believe that I was special. I waited in line with a copy of the VHS tape that I was going to have him sign.
When I got up to him, everything left my mind. He took my hand in both of his hands and I told him my name, and he said, "Julie, I am so glad that you are here today." He said, "People don't realize, because I'm on TV that I can get nervous. And I was nervous when I walked in the room with all these strangers. And then, I saw your face and you were smiling and you were happy to see me. And I just want you to know you're special. And I like you just the way you are." [audience laughter] Thank you.
[cheers and applause]
Suzanne: [00:07:23] That was Julie Baker, a writer, storyteller, producer, and mother of two. Julie calls herself a legally blind badass who likes to challenge herself. And to prove it, she and her partner, Paul, are walking the Camino de Santiago, Portuguese coastal route in the spring.
I asked Julie about her childhood, and she says that she's thankful that her mom and dad eventually moved on from each other and the chaos that surrounded her. She's grateful that she was able to heal her relationship with her parents before they died.
Julie said that when she became a mom, she worked very hard to make sure her daughter and son knew that she loved them no matter what. To see a photo of Julie and her children, go to themoth.org/extras. And there, you will also find a treasured photo of that meeting with the man, the myth, Mr. Rogers.
Julie had no idea that a colleague had taken that photo until she sent it to her after Fred Rogers' death. She says that it's one of her most prized possessions, and I don't blame her. I was a huge Mr. Rogers fan myself, and the familiar sound of that trolley still makes me happy and makes me feel at home.
Julie's story came from a Moth SLAM, our open mic storytelling events held in 28 cities across the country. Anyone can sign up to share a true personal five-minute story based on the theme of the evening and audience judges choose a winner. Stories should be about a moment of change in your life, big or small, happy or sad, sometimes both. And there should be stakes. What did you stand to gain or lose?
So, Julie looked at our list of live Moth events and found a SLAM near her with a theme that inspired her. In this case, it was neighborhoods. She prepared a five-minute version of what she wanted to say. Then on the night of the event, dropped her name in a hat, and was one of the 10 storytellers chosen for the evening.
Do you have a story that's been living inside of you that you'd like to share? Go to our website and look for a local event and come on out. We listen to all of the SLAM stories. Some get developed for Mainstage shows, and others like Julie's are perfect as is. Not feeling quite up to that? You can call our pitch line and leave a two-minute version of your story there. We are listening.
In a moment, two very different types of spiritual connections, when The Moth Radio Hour continues.
Jay: [00:10:07] The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.
Suzanne: [00:10:16] This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Suzanne Rust. And in this episode, we're sharing stories of finding your place. For the price of a movie ticket, our next teller found his people. Steven Michael Carr told this story at a Louisville GrandSLAM, where we partner with LPM Louisville Public Media. Here's Steven.
[cheers and applause]
Steven: [00:10:39] When it came to Shaina and I, we weren't just weird, we were evangelical Jesus freak weird. [audience laughter] We were equally obsessed with Wuthering Heights and the Gospel according to Mark, okay? You see, we had heard about midnight movies before, but we'd never actually been to one. We were curious to get outside of our little bubble of Shepherdsville, Kentucky. And so, that is how two conservative Christian teenagers found themselves at 11:50 PM on a random Saturday at their first midnight viewing of The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
[cheers and applause]
Now, when we go into theater, our jaws drop to the floor, [audience chuckles] because every single person, man and woman, are covered head toe from full makeup, fishnets, high heels, honey. The first thing I think in my brain is, "Mm, these people need Jesus." [audience laughter] Yes. While we are picking our jaws up off the floor, there is this woman with short red hair in a fully sequined outfit who tap dances her way on over to us. And you know what she does? She pulls a little red tube of lipstick out of her bra. It's like she can smell the discomfort oozing out of our pores. [audience chuckles] She looks at us and she smiles and she says, "First time?" [audience laughter] We nod in absolute terror, mind you.
Before we know what she's doing, she's put these little red V’s on our cheeks with the lipstick, [audience chuckles] and she's ushering us into theater. There's all these people in fishnets and pearls behind us pushing in to get around, right? Now, the next few things happen in a very quick succession, so keep up if you can. [audience chuckles] There is this tall man with the largest heels, the highest heels I have ever seen, who comes to the front where the screen is, there's this little stage, and he says, "Bring up the virgins." [audience laughter] We look around. The crowd begins to push us out into the aisleways. And the next thing we know, we're up on the stage.
And for the next two minutes, this man with the heels straps a plastic basketball hoop to my head and forces Shaina to try to shoot as many baskets as she can [audience laughter] with a plastic basketball onto my head. I am mortified, okay? But I don't have very long to be mortified, because the lights all go out, we're plunged into darkness, and the next thing I know-- There is this music video playing on the screen, and it's this song I have never heard of before, and it's called I Do the Rock, right?
These people all start running in this giant stampede in a circle around the theater. It's like a mosh pit, you know? The high-heeled man pushes Shaina and I into this throng of people, and we have no choice but to run, so that we don't get stampeded on, you know, crushed beneath their feet. When the movie finally starts, there's these shadow actors that are on the stage performing the whole thing and lip syncing it while it's happening. We got all the cast of characters. We've got the main stuffy characters, right, Brad and Janet. We've got the high heeled man who is obviously Dr. Frank-N-Furter.
The audience begins shouting all of these things at the screen, things that I will not repeat on this stage unless I want to get canceled. [audience chuckles] At some point in the evening, Shaina and I start doing this dance called the Time Warp. [audience chuckles] By the time we get to the entrance song of Tim Curry's Dr. Frank-N-Furter, and he says, "I see you shiver with anticip--"
Unison: [00:14:35] -pation]
Steven: [00:14:38] Everyone in the crowd is saying, "Say it, say it" I find myself shouting, "Say it, say it" And when he finally says, "--pation," we all jump and we cheer. And something clicks in my brain and I begin to relax a little bit. By the time this whole story is over on the screen, and Brad and Janet emerge from this experience, new and sex positive and burlesque performing freaks, I realized that in the metaphor of the movie and what's taking place, Shaina and I are Brad and Janet. [audience laughter]
You see, this was my first time brushing up against queerness. It was the first time that I saw sex portrayed not as this stuffy, serious thing from my evangelical background, but something that really wasn't a big deal. It could be freeing. And in fact, could be funny. In this room with all these people, some of them my age, some of them a lot older than me, people who were just reveling in the ridiculousness of it all and being absolutely stupid together, I thought for the first time in my lonely, closeted Southern Baptist life, I found my people. [audience laughter] I found my people. [audience applause]
“Don't dream it, be it” is the thing that the cast says to the audience. I really took that in. And for the next four years, once a month, Shaina and I would go to the midnight showings of The Rocky Horror Picture Show at the Baxter Avenue Theater, because it was church for us. [audience chuckles] Now, there are people in this day and age, the youngins, right, who would say that there might be some problematic things about The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Things like the consent of the characters or dated terminology.
But for me, The Rocky Horror Picture Show was the place that I got to meet weirdos. They took all those things that I thought I hated about myself, and they wore them like first prize ribbons from the Kentucky State Fair. [audience chuckles] The Rocky Horror Picture Show is the place that I learned to love myself. And with a little bit of lipstick and a lot of eyeshadow and that inspirational refrain of “Don't dream it, be it”, I hope that tonight you can also do the same. Thank you.
[cheers and applause]
Suzanne: [00:17:23] That was Steven Michael Carr, a non-profit development professional, storyteller, and multiple time Moth StorySLAM winner. Steven is the co-owner and event curator of Old Louisville Brewery, where he helps create spaces where community and belonging thrive. He hasn't been to a Rocky Horror Picture Show in years. He says he likes to go to bed at a decent hour these days, but he's still best friends with Shaina.
I asked Steven where he currently finds his people or his fellow weirdos, as he calls them. Here's what he shared when I interviewed him in early 2025.
Steven: [00:18:00] I feel like it's much easier for folks to find each other these days on the Internet. And I also feel like, despite what the current administration would tell you, that people feel more comfortable being queer than before. So, I just feel like I naturally see more queerness out and about regularly. And not that we intentionally set out to do this at the Old Louisville Brewery in terms of it being a queer space, but I feel like we do want to be a welcoming space and we welcome people to bring their authentic selves. And so, people just show up that way.
Suzanne: [00:18:48] That was Steven Michael Carr. To see photos of Steven and Shaina, go to themoth.org/extras.
Sometimes the clues for where we belong come from a higher place. Sister Julie Vieira shared this story at a special Moth event of Catholic Sisters stories in St. Paul, Minnesota, hosted by St. Catherine University. Here's Julie, live at The Moth.
[applause]
Sister Julie: [00:19:22] When I was in high school, I abhorred the idea of belonging to any kind of exclusive group. I didn't want to be known as just the basketball player, or just the yearbook editor, or just the stagehand. I wanted to belong to something that was bigger than myself, that was more than any one thing.
As I made my awkward way through high school, one of my favorite classes was our senior class on Faith. We were doing a section on social justice. And in one class, our teacher presented the documentary Roses in December. Roses in December is the story about the four church women who were killed in El Salvador. And there I was in high school, most significant questions of my life had to do with what to have at lunch and what to wear in the morning. And here I was watching this film about these women who had given their life to be with the people of El Salvador. They had given their life, and they had also given their death, and I thought to myself, “What is so significant in my own life that I would be willing to give my life for it and my death?”
These questions and these women stayed with me as I made my way through college and then into grad school. I was studying theology, and I discovered that those questions kept coming back and that no textbook seemed to have the answer for me as to what to do. So, I found myself a spiritual director, a professor of theology at my school, and she also happened to be a Catholic Sister. So, we would meet every couple weeks and I would tell her all of my spiritual anguish and talk about the questions that I had. She was like, "Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm."
And if you've ever been to spiritual directions, it's great because spiritual directors try to set up this nice prayerful ambiance. There's like a candle going, there's some flowers. There's like a little open Bible at a very apropos Bible verse. And so, there's all these wonderful holy accoutrements. While I was sitting there with her, I seemed to always focus on her shoes. [audience chuckles] I'm like, “She's wearing high heeled shoes. These are not the sensible nun shoes that I had thought nuns wore.” And so, I realized, I don't think I've ever paid attention to the shoes that sisters are wearing. I don't think I've ever known a sister this up close and personal. And so, then I'm like, “Hmm, I wonder what else there is to know.” I thought about it, I'm like, “Wow, she's got a doctorate in theology. She's very well accepted in theology community. World class theologian, very funny, always delightful.” I'm like, “Hmm, this is interesting.”
So, during spiritual direction, I thought I would do the redirect strategies. So, instead of talking about my own life, I'd say, "So, Sister Margaret, how are things going? How are your sisters?" And so, I would do the redirect to try to get to know her a little bit better and to find out what this was all about. What I found was that I was becoming more interested in hearing her tell her story than me telling my story of spiritual anguish. [audience chuckles] And I thought, there's something very compelling about this to me.
So, I decided instead of telling her anything like, “Oh my gosh, I think it's amazing you're a Catholic sister,” I decided that I would engage in the time-honored tradition of nun surveillance. [audience laughter] Nun surveillance is the best. So, basically, what you do is you kind of scope out the nuns that are around you and you look at them, you say, “What are they wearing? What kind of shoes do they have? What do they do, what kind of ministries?” It's just a way to say they are more than a Catholic sister. There's this whole life that they have.
So, I engaged in nun surveillance. And my greatest achievement was I had heard that one of my special spiritual directors’ sisters was coming to speak at our theology school. She was going to give a lecture on God knows what. I don't even know what it was. I just wanted to go and hear what it was like for a nun to give a world class presentation and see how she talked, what her theology was like, what kind of shoes she had on. [audience laughter] And I thought, I'm going to just go sit in the back of the lecture hall and I shall observe.
So, there I was, keeping an eye, listening to the lecture a little bit, don't know what she was talking about, wasn't paying attention. And there I am sitting there and I'm like, “Oh, this is very interesting. She holds herself all right.” I'm a first-year theology student. I'm like, “Her theology isn't that bad. [audience chuckles] That's all right. She does all right.” So, I'd done all my nun scoping for the evening was ready to head out of the lecture hall and I was just going to slip out. As I started to get up from my seat, there in front of me was my spiritual director, and I'm like, “Oh my God.” I felt like I just gotten caught in some big illicit act. [audience chuckles]
Margaret comes over to me and she says, "Oh, Julie, it's so good to see you. I would love for you to meet the sisters. A few of our sisters came in, they heard that you are young, was giving a talk, and they wanted to come and support her." I'm like, “She's a world class theologian. She doesn't need any support. And here are these women coming to just like be her fan club?” I'm like, “That's interesting.” So, Margaret grabs my hand and walks me over to the sisters. They welcomed me. And there we were, and I thought, okay, introductions, that's it. And then, they just started chit chatting with me, with each other. They congratulated Mary Ellen. They caught up with each other, because they hadn't seen each other in a while.
All the while, Margaret is holding onto my hand. And I thought to myself, “Oh my God, this is sisterhood.” It was this dying of a realization that these individual women that I was getting to know and scoping out through nun surveillance weren't just individuals, that they were alive and animated through this thing that all I could say was sisterhood. So, after that, I went home and laid down. [audience chuckles] That experience stayed with me. I couldn't believe that I would ever experience that again. I thought that my spiritual director was pretty unique and I thought, “Well, that experience at the lecture hall, that was probably just totally unique and random.” The experience, though, kept staying with me.
So, like St. Anthony in the desert, I decided to face my demons. I called The Mother House and asked to speak to the vocation director. After talking a little bit, we decided that, I could come for a Come and See, which is a retreat for people who are thinking about entering community, get to know the community. So, I finally told Margaret that I was doing this and she's like, "Mm-hmm." I went on the Come and See. I like steeled myself, I'm like, “This is going to be fine. I mean, they're going to pray. I'm going to meet sisters, I'm going to learn about the congregation.” I was totally ready to confirm that my aspiration was not to become a Catholic sister.
And so, we did all those things. And I'm like, “This is going great. This is not for me.” And that night, we went out for dinner. We went to one of the local restaurants. It was Saturday night. Of course, what do you do on Saturday? You go out with the nuns. [audience chuckles] And so, there we were at this restaurant. It's totally crowded. There are lines up. So, one of the other young woman that was with me, who was also discerning, we decided we're going to go up to the bar and have ourselves a pint of beer. That'll calm our nerves. And so, one of the sisters joined us and so, the three of us were chit chatting at the bar.
Our table was called, and we started to head over. Another sister comes up to me, she says, "Oh, Julie, I'm so glad you got to meet that sister. You know, she does a great ministry in alcohol addictions counseling. [audience laughter] And she also happens to be the one responsible for accepting new members to the congregation." [audience laughter] I thought to myself, “Oh my God, what have I done?” And there I was. I suddenly realized I actually care what these sisters think about me. I care about the fact that I want to be the kind of person that would be a member of their community, that would be part of that sisterhood.
So, we finally make it to the dinner table. Thank God. There we are sitting there and having dinner. One of the other sisters leans over to me in the middle of the meal and says, "Watch this." She excuses herself from the table, walks around the restaurant, and there was a live band playing. I see her go up and talk to the band leader. She comes back to the table. After a few minutes, there's this big restaurant wide announcement. And it says, "Everybody, we have a very special day today. Someone in the audience here, or someone in the restaurant here is celebrating their 21st birthday. Frances Ryan, please stand up. We celebrate your 21st birthday."
Everyone around our table looks at one another. Our vocation director, 60-year-old nun was named Frances Ryan. [audience laughter] When it dawns on her, what had just happened. She bursts out laughing. The rest of us were laughing. She stands up. The restaurant takes a moment to take this all in, that this 21-year-old that they were celebrating was actually a 60-year-old nun. And there we were, we're like, “Oh my God, this is sisterhood.” That feeling of sisterhood came right back and it was like, “This is how we are with one another. And you are a part of this. This is how we are with one another.”
It took me a little while to recover from the whole Come and See experience. [audience chuckles] I found myself about a year later, sitting at community night with some sisters. The telephone rang, they picked it up, and it was our president from our congregation. They handed the phone to me, and she was calling to tell me that I had been accepted as a member of the congregation. I put the phone down, and I looked up to see my three sisters there, and I realized I was already in the circle of sisterhood.
[applause]
Suzanne: [00:29:17] Sister Julie. Julie Vieira has been a nun for 25 years. She is a writer and thinker in spirituality with, in her words, “A particular attentiveness to living in the darkness and light, the poetry and rough prose of everyday life.” Julie holds a Master of Arts and Theology, and works both as a creative consultant and as director of the Margaret Brennan Institute. I was curious to know more about how Julie found her calling, so we zoomed in.
I am fascinated by the different paths people take to becoming a nun or a person of the cloth. I always think it must start with faith. Were you raised in a religious or spiritual household?
Sister Julie: [00:29:57] I was raised in a religious household. My family is Roman Catholic, and I had an uncle who was a priest at the time as well. And so, it was a very religious-- I don't want to say religious experience, because my parents were very much part of the Vatican II generation. And so, for them, being Catholic, not only meant being prayerful and having your devotions, but it meant being people of justice and acting on behalf of justice. And so, for all of our biggest holidays, Christmas, Easter, we always went to the soup kitchen. That was the first thing that we did. They instilled that in me. So, that's the background that I came from, went to Catholic school from kindergarten all the way to grad school. So, it's been very much a part of my background.
Suzanne: [00:30:59] What did you learn about yourself? Like, what have you learned about yourself over these years with the sisterhood?
Sister Julie: [00:31:04] Well, last year, I celebrated my 25th anniversary as a sister. I can't imagine that I got this far, but I did. [chuckles] One of the things I've been reflecting on is and I talk about it in that episode of what sisterhood really means. When you've been in this kind of relationship as long as I have, I really have learned that we hang in there with one another through thick and thin, that we faced a lot of contrarieties both in the world around us, and also, just as a community. A lot of communities have a higher median age. And so, it's really challenging as a younger person sometimes to be in the midst of it all. But how we grow and adapt and hold one another through it has been one of my, I think, biggest learnings, that at the end of the day, it's like we've got each other's backs.
Suzanne: [00:32:12] So, you had a couple lines in your story about observing the shoes made me laugh. So, I have to ask you, what kind of shoes do you wear, Sister Julie? [Sister Julie laughs] What's on your feet?
Sister Julie: [00:32:24] Well, back in the day, they would have been high heels. But now, I have to say I sporting some nice Sketchers. I'm all about the Chuck Taylor, so I've gone in that direction. [laughs]
Suzanne: [00:32:42] Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, listen, thank you so much for taking some time to talk to me today.
Sister Julie: [00:32:47] Oh. Well, thank you very much.
Suzanne: [00:32:50] That was Sister Julie Vieira. To see some photos of Sister Julie, go to themoth.org/extras.
In a moment, a woman finds just the right community, when The Moth Radio Hour continues.
Jay: [00:33:12] The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.
Suzanne: [00:33:23] You're listening to The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Suzanne Rust. Build your own community and your people will come. Susan Marie Moreno told this final story in Kansas City, where we partner with public radio station KCUR. Here's Susan.
[cheers and applause]
Susan: [00:33:42] I was born and raised in Davenport, Iowa, the corn belt of the United States. It was a great childhood growing up in Iowa, but I always felt a little out of place. I always just was kind of different, and my mother would say, "Suzy, you really beat to a different drum." [audience chuckles] I know I did, but I just kept looking and searching and being myself. So, I had an opportunity to go to the University of Iowa. They were recruiting for diversity. And also, I was a shot putter, Title IX, was then.
[cheers and applause]
And so, that was 1975. And I thought, “This is great. I'll find my people. I'm looking for some lesbians, [audience chuckles] some lesbians of color.” I thought, “Yeah.” So, I go up there and I'm looking, I'm searching, [audience laughter] and I'm like, “Well, I'm still in Iowa.” [audience laughter] But I see a few women in that and I'm just happy. I always wanted to be an art teacher. So, I went and pursued my education degree at the University of Iowa and had an opportunity after I was there. I was on the seven-year plan. I was still searching, looking for lesbians, [audience laughter] and they had an opportunity to move to Kansas City and do my student teaching. I thought, “I'm going there. I'm searching for those lesbians. [audience laughter] Maybe a bigger city, more people, they'll be like me.”
I came down here. One suitcase. I'd never been to Kansas City before, but I knew it was the Midwest, so I was happy. Started teaching, doing my thing, meeting other teachers. Still no lesbians. [audience laughter] Well, we did have a magazine that was called Lesbian Connections that came out of Michigan. Woo hoo, it's still out there. [audience chuckles] It was like the African-American Green Book where you could look and see and find other lesbians or safe places to go while you travel. So, I'm looking through and it came in the mail with a brown paper bag, because it was considered pornography or I don't know what. You didn't want any-- It just was not cool to be a lesbian during the 70s. [audience chuckles] So, I was looking through there and I went around Kansas City, and I found The Phoenix Bookstore, 39th in Maine. [audience cheers and applause]
Yeah, you remember, you know. We used to have the only way of communication back then, because remember, we didn't have Internet, we didn't have cell phones. “Oh my gosh, how could I find some more lesbians?” [audience chuckles] The bookstore, the women's bookstore. So, I went up there and I had my little note card and my tack and there was a bulletin board up there. I started writing, “Single Mexican woman, long walks in the park, dog friendly, looking for friendship.” [audience chuckles] Nobody answered, nobody called me. [audience laughter] So, I thought, “Oh well, I'm just going to keep becoming a teacher, pursuing. They're out there somewhere.”
I got invited to a baby shower of a good friend. I went and I go, and there across the room, oh my gosh, I saw the most gorgeous African-American woman with these honey brown eyes. Just beautiful, just reeling me in like I had a magnet going towards her. So, of course, I have to go over there. Introduce myself, and she says, "Hi, I'm Beverly Powell, I'm a teacher, too." And I was like, “Oh, hi.” We talked and talked. It was like we were in our own world. We started dating. It was about a year or so later, and we were sharing what were your dreams and things. Bev had always wanted to own her own house in Kansas City. And so, I thought, “That sounds great.” I hadn't lived with a woman before, so I thought, “Oh, this is going to be wonderful.”
So, we started going to banking institutions. The first thing that they would say back in the early 80s and mid-80s was, "What does your husband do for a living? Can you bring your father into cosine?" “What?” Because we were professional teachers, and at that time, it wasn't cool to put down there that you were a lesbian, and we were looking for houses together. It just wasn't cool, or accepted. So, we were disappointed, because it was just blatant discrimination in the financial institutions. And so, Bev didn't give up the dream. But we just went looking.
And one day, Bev comes home. She was a teacher also, and says, "Sue, Sue, I found out there's going to be an informational meeting." I said, “What? What kind of information?” “There is this pack of lesbians, and they're trying to form a neighborhood, an intentional neighborhood called Womontown.” [audience chuckles] I thought, “What?” [audience cheers and applause]
Yeah. Yeah. And, I thought, “What?” I started thinking, “I have my woman. I don't need to be around a bunch of pack of lesbians. [audience laughter] Uh-uh. No, No, I did that before.” I said, “Okay.” Bev was like, "Sue, I don't care what you say. I'm getting a house." And I thought, if Beverly Powell moved to the end of the world, I was going with her. That's how much I love that woman. [audience applause]
So, we go and start looking at these houses. The houses were all boarded up or abandoned, but people were still living there. But it was not the best neighborhood in Kansas City. Bev was all excited, "Sue, we can do it. We're going to do it." And I was like. “Hmm?” But I said, “Well, let’s see.” She said, "Well, let's try to put some information up there at the bookstore." So, we put it up there, and there was a couple that founded it, Andrea Nedelsky and Mary Ann Hopper. They had gone to music festivals and started advertising through Lesbian Connection and inviting women to come to this intentional neighborhood. We just wanted women to come over and help us get the house fixed.
So, Bev was an incredible cook. She started barbecuing, I started getting the brushes and everything together. Our house, let me give you a picture of it. We opened the door-- This is the house Bev picked now. We open the door, and it has avocado green shag carpet [audience chuckles] wallpaper. 7 to 10 years of wallpaper. Paneling. You remember how popular that was back then. I was like, “Oh my God.” They had lowered the ceilings with some kind of foam that, I was like, “Ugh.” But underneath all of that was beautiful oak beveled, stained glass window. Just the bones of those houses were just beautiful. I told Bev, I said, “Bev, I don't think anybody's going to come over and help us.” And so, we're out there. She's like “No, Sue. Don’t worry.”
She’s getting the barbecue grill ready, I'm going out and buying my favorite beer. Pabst Blue Ribbon in Milwaukee. Best light, [audience chuckles] getting a little natural light in there, because we like that. [audience laughter] So, then, we're all ready. Next thing I know, women start coming. They start showing up. Some even had tool belts on. I was like, “Hey.” [audience laughter] It was great. Women came from all over out of curiosity, maybe they knew Bev was a good cook, they just wanted to hear what was going on in Womontown. So, it was great.
We got the house going. We'd go around, and that neighborhood started to thrive. Women started moving from Hawaii, New York, California, all over the United States. It was fantastic. We met all kinds of women. We'd go around and help each other with the things that we could do. We even had a roofer come from Topeka, come and help the women. Whatever was needed, you put it out there and women showed up. It was a great community. Well, as we were living there, we wanted to become more of the neighborhood, so we thought, “Let's start going to the neighborhood association meetings.” We went, and of course, there was mostly older people that had inherited those houses, or else people that were really not happy the way that the neighborhood was changing. There was 12 of us that showed up.
In those days, it was so cool to have a rat tail coming down. [audience laughter] Don't forget to get your mullet trimmed up. It was the best style. I loved it. [audience chuckles] Of course, many of us had flannel shirts on our boots. We were ready to join. We went as a group. When we went in that meeting, silence. There was a hush. We got side eyed, we got the stink eye, people started whispering. I felt like I was this tall. It reminded me. It triggered feelings that I felt of loneliness and isolation back in Iowa. I was like, “Oh no.” Well, they obviously did not want us there. They thought that were going to be recruiting their daughters, their children. I don't know what was-- They were just afraid of change. We were pretty good-looking group of dykes. [audience laughter]
So, what happened is that we joined the meetings. There was a lot of tension and resistance. I went home, I said, “Oh, Bev, they do not want us here. They do not want us in this neighborhood. They are not happy we're here.” And Bev was like, "Sue, just quit going. You know, we've got our house. You don't need to go anymore. We have what we need." I looked at Bev, with love in my eyes, I said, “You know what, Bev? I am fighting for this. We're staying. We are not going to say no. We are not going to be rejected from this area. We belong here.” [audience applause]
Yeah. So, we kept going to meetings, showing up. We started joining committees. We started beautifying our own homes. Renters start moving into the place. We started, of course, having potlucks. We love those. People just were getting along women. At one time, we had 82 women that lived in that neighborhood in Longfellow Dutch Hills.
[cheers and applause]
Yes. Yes. And it was great. People were finally starting to see a little difference, but there still was a lot of mistrust. One day, one of the women said, “When women move in, we're going to give them a banner. And you put it on your front door. It had three tulips signifying Dutch Hills Longfellow neighborhood, and it was also our way to show that lesbians live there and that it was a safe space.” So, when women moved in, they got their banner, they displayed it, and it was just a wonderful feeling. It was the best community.
They decided that we're going to have a tulip festival, because that was part of our flower for Dutch Hills. Somebody had donated a bunch of tulips. Everybody came that day. Bev was barbecuing, of course. We had garage sales in May. We had all kinds of things going on. It was in the fall, because we had to plant them. Everybody took home about a dozen or two dozen tulips that were donated to the neighborhood. Next thing you know, people were having fun and laughing. Other neighbors were coming by. We had it set up in a big empty lot. Of course, the craftswomen set up other crafts. People were tarot card reading, all kinds of different things. And lots of camaraderie.
Later on, that spring, you started seeing the tulips coming up. The neighborhood is beautiful. It was then, and it still is. It just showed me in my mind and in my life, when you plant a seed, a bulb, and invite people through love and beauty, it will grow. Womontown is still there. In fact, our mayor will be putting a plaque up in Longfellow this June for pride and commemorating all the hard work and the contribution that this strong pack of lesbians gave to Longfellow Dutch Hills. Thank you so much for listening to my story. [laughs]
[cheers and applause]
Suzanne: [00:48:08] That was Susan Maria Moreno, who likes to refer to herself as a BMW, a Big Mexican Woman. Susan is an artist and a social justice and human rights advocate. She's currently working on building a place where senior citizens that identify as GLBTQ can live comfortably in Womontown.
I asked Susan what her biggest takeaway was from her years of living in Womontown. She said that she learned that representation matters and that one person can make a difference. To see a photo of Susan and her sunny smile, go to themoth.org.
And that's it for this episode. We hope that you find the people and places that make you feel whole. Our lives are busy and full of distractions, so we really thank you for taking some time to listen, and we hope you'll join us next time.
[Uncanny Valley theme music by The Drift]
Jay: [00:49:16] This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, and Suzanne Rust, who also hosted the show. Coproducer is Viki Merrick, associate producer Emily Couch. The stories were directed by Chloe Salmon and Kate Tellers.
The rest of The Moth's leadership team include Sarah Haberman, Christina Norman, Sarah Austin Jenness, Jenifer Hixson, Marina Klutse, Lee Ann Gullie, Sarah Jane Johnson, and Patricia Ureña. Moth stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the Storytellers.
Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour from Mister Fred Rogers, Bill Frizzell, the Rocky Horror Show, The Meters, the Penguin Café, and The Quick. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts.
The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Audacy, including executive producer Leah Reis-Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us your own story, and to learn about The Moth, go to our website themoth.org.