Host: Jon Goode
Jon: [00:00:04] Welcome to The Moth Podcast. I'm Jon Goode, your host for this week. Originally coined as Armistice Day by President Woodrow Wilson in 1919, the day we now hold as Veterans Day is a day that elevates and celebrates those who stood a post around the world in defense of freedom. Every year on November 11th, we remember and honor their commitment, service and sacrifice.
Our first story this week comes from Scott Young. Scott told this story at a GrandSLAM in London, where the theme of the night was Lost and Found. Here's Scott, live at The Moth.
[cheers and applause]
Scott: [00:00:53] If I'm complimented at all on my physical appearance, it's usually one of two things. My thick, full beard or my beefy, muscular legs. [audience laughter] I get both from my mother. [audience laughter] She's only 5’2”, but she is built thick and has a hirsuteness many men would envy. I grew up to the acrid smell of the wax she boiled mornings to remove the whiskers from her chin. [audience laughter] Yet all you ever heard growing up was, just like your father. Now, I knew that wasn't physical, because my dad's 6’4” and had a baby smooth face and as my mother liked to say, “Had to run around in the shower to get wet. He was so skinny.” [audience laughter] Not the genes I got. [chuckles] So, what was it about me that made me like my father? It's hard being compared to a ghost.
See, my father died fighting in the Vietnam War when I was only two. He was 21 and he had a choice. He could get released from active duty one month early or he could spend a week on leave in Hawaii with my mother and I. He chose to get out of active duty early. He died a war hero, killed by mortar fire rescuing injured soldiers on the week he would have been in Hawaii with us, on my mother's birthday. If you wrote it as fiction, your editor would cut it, because it's not believable. But it's my life.
My father was drafted because he quit his job, left my mother and I, and took off to San Francisco for what he hoped to be the second summer of love. I can hardly blame him for that. He came back with a draft notice and said he was against the war and he wanted to ditch the draft, and for my mom and I to run away to Canada with him. My mother said no. My mother said, “Be a man and fight for your country.” Her regret is deep. Now, when kids would ask me about my father, I'd say, “He died in the war.” They'd always say, “I'm sorry.” And I'd say, “Don't be. I never knew him.” I was super defensive. I resented their pity, but I was angry and I didn't know why, so I just buried those feelings.
I did know that the Vietnam War veterans didn't get any parades. Nobody spoke with pride of serving in the one war America lost, and nobody back then honored my mother and I by calling us a Gold Star family. The Vietnam War was a mistake. It was an embarrassment. There was no space for me to be proud of my father, this war hero. So, I wasn't. I was 24 when I decided to go to Bill Clinton's inauguration, kind of a last-minute idea. I was buoyed by his win, hopeful for the future. I wanted to see this monument that they'd built for the Vietnam War veterans. I knew my dad's name was on. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, so I purposely decided I wouldn't choose which day I would go there.
So, it was the third day. I was there, and I found myself standing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, looking down at the black gash of granite and decided it was time. Now, when you enter, you can give them the name of a person and they'll print out a piece of paper that shows you the location, so you can find it. I couldn't believe what the paper said. It said, “Ronald L. Young. Born, January 19th.” It was January 19th. He died when I was two. We never celebrated his birthday. The only birthday I thought of with my dad really was my mother's, the day he died, which was always a miserable experience. But still, I randomly decided to go that day. I found my father's name on the wall. I ran my fingers over the etching.
Facing the high black gloss of the Vietnam War Memorial is like seeing yourself through a mirror darkly. All of the complicated feelings around the Vietnam War are embodied in the monument designed by Maya Lin. It is a splendid visual metaphor. I could see the Washington Monument proud, reflected as though through a bleak haze. And I reflected for the first time in my life on my own loss. Standing there in a sea of flowers, mementos, notes, American flags of all sizes, burning candles everywhere at my feet, I was overwhelmed. I suddenly realized, you know, all those times people said sorry, and I said, don't be, I never knew him was exactly why they were sorry and why I was so sorry now. I wept.
A stranger came up to me and put their arm around me while I cried. When I finally looked, I was stunned to see it was just a young girl, too young to be the daughter of anyone on the wall. She bared witness to my grief. We didn't speak. We didn't have to. I've now lived 30 more years than my father did. I never fought in a war and I don't think I'm anybody's hero, but people still say, well, honestly, mostly my mother, “You're just like your father.” And now, now that makes me proud. Thank you.
[cheers and applause]
Jon: [00:07:05] That was Scott Young. Scott has always been a storyteller, from spinning fantastical tales in the playground to publishing articles about LA nightlife, to creating marketing narratives as a creative director. Scott believes that we find life's meaning through story. To see some photos of Scott's family and of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, head to our website, themoth.org/extras.
Our next storyteller is Tom Sitter. Tom told this story at a StorySLAM in Madison, where the theme of the night was Karma. Be sure to stick around after the applause to hear a one-of-a-kind conversation that I had with Tom, veteran to veteran. Here's Tom, live at The Moth.
[hollering, cheers and applause]
Tom: [00:07:52] Thank you. Hi, my name is Tom Sitter. 93 years old and still breathing. Now, during World War II, I found myself in France. Now, the Battle of the Bulge had started in December of that year and continued through January. When we got there, it was pretty much over, but I was in a medical battalion and we had to clean up pretty much. We carried bodies, and parts of bodies and prisoners to station hospitals into the aid tents.
Now, over there, we ran into our arch enemies, the 9th Armored Division. These guys were all tankers and they were mean. We had both trained in Kansas during, near Fort Riley during World War II. I was in the cavalry at the time. We had these great uniforms, boots and breeches, and they really turned a lot of heads and we knew it. [audience laughter] We were pretty cocky. Anyway, we'd go into town and when the tankers would be there-- Oh, by the way, in 1942, they still had horse cavalry down at Fort Riley in addition to the mechanized cavalry.
So, when we go into town, the tankers be in these bars. We'd come walking in and they'd say, “I smell horseshit. The 29th must be here.” [audience laughter] And we gave as good as we got. As a result, there were a lot of fights going on, a lot and a lot of. We would instigate fights. Well, we'd sing a cavalry song. Bear with me. We'd say.
[sings] The cavalry, the cavalry with dirt behind their ears. The cavalry, the cavalry, they drank up all the beers. The infantry and tankers and the Corps of Engineers, they couldn't whip the cavalry in 100,000 years. [audience laughter]
[cheers and applause]
Thank you. That created a lot of fights too. [audience laughter] Anyways, when we got over to Europe, we ran into the 9th Armored Division. I'll tell you how. When we first landed, the 20th Armored Division, there were 12,000 men, tanks and armored cars and jeeps and everything else. The first thing they did when we landed in France was to break us up into segments. And they put us with the 1st, the 3rd and the 9th Army. So, we were part of the 9th Army. And up near the Rhine, we were next to the British and Canadian troops.
During that time, we did ambulance duties and moved up wounded and dead. But we noticed when we got up to close to the Rhine, our hearts sank. First of all, the Germans, when they retreated after the battle, they blew up bridges all the way. We knew that when we got to the Rhine, we saw that immense body of water. We knew our hearts sank. We knew we were going to have to cross it probably in rubber rafts or tiny boats. So, we didn't look forward to that. And my rosary got a pretty good workout during that time.
Anyway, finally, this has been-- By now, it was February of 1945. Now, the Rhine River started as a trickle in the Swiss Alps. When it goes northeasterly, flowing into the North Sea, it becomes a huge river, you know, hundreds of yards across. We just were frightened at the thought of crossing it. By early March, we had good news. Someone had captured a bridge at Remagen. It was a railway trestle bridge and it was captured by our old arch enemies, the 9th Armored Division. Great guys. [audience laughter]
So, anyway, we reunited the 20th Armored Division, finally went to the point where we were going to cross. Now, the 9th Armored Division had fought terribly hard to win that. The Germans tried to blow up the trestle bridge. And what happened is some of the charges, for some reason, God only knows, they didn't go off. So, the 9th Armored had to go into that trestle, crawling under fire and had to cut iron, cut wires, remove charges that didn't detonate. At any moment, they thought the thing would go up into their face. And then, on top of it, the bridge now was intact, but it was tilted and very shaky. You couldn't get a vehicle across there.
So, the 9th Armored dismounted, had crawled under fire, went across that bridge one at a time under fire and established a bridgehead on the other side of the river. They held that bridgehead, those lucky so and so's, held that bridge long enough for pontoon bridges to be built, where we were. Well, the 20th Armored Division finally was united and we were going to cross at that point. Now, when we got in our ambulance, we started off across a pontoon, a very flimsy pontoon bridge, the big bridges, sturdy ones were for tanks and trucks. But as we got onto this pontoon, I could tell it was shaking. We were swaying from side to side and dipping and everything else. The water was choppy and the water was black and it was cold. It was in March.
And we knew that if we made one mistake, that ambulance was going to go into the water with us in it. And in doing so, we're going to wreck that pontoon bridge, which means that if we survived the water floating downstream, our own troops would have been shooting at us. And who were waiting to cross the bridge, of course. Well, we finally got across the bridge. On the other side of the bridge, we reunited, and the 20th Army Division was attached to the 7th Army. And we swept through Germany. Now, we went through down along Mannheim, and Augsburg, and south and east and finally got to Dachau. Now, that's another story I won't go into. And we got to Munich, and finally, we crossed the river and got into Bavaria.
And as we headed towards the Austrian border, we almost reached it on May 7th, 1945, and the war ended. Now, yesterday was May 7th. I mean, talk about 72 years. And to this day, I'm here telling that story, because I wouldn't be here, had it not been for those incredible bravery of those glorious bastards, [audience laughter] the 9th Armored Division.
[cheers and applause]
Jon: [00:15:03] Let's hear for Tom Sitter.
[hollering, cheers and cheering]
That was Tom Sitter. Tom was born on August 16th, 1923 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He's a retired building and fire inspector and World War II combat medic, who served in the European Rhineland and Central Europe campaigns. In his 40-month army service, he was a motorcyclist in both the mechanized cavalry and military police, a medic, bugler, boxer and litter bearer. Litter bearer is not what it sounds like. In this instance, litter means stretcher. Tom currently resides in Madison, Wisconsin.
In the conversation you're about to hear, it is my distinct honor and privilege to speak with Tom about his life and service in the army.
[phone dialing]
Hello, this is Jon. Is this Mr. Tom Sitter?
Tom: [00:16:10] This is he. Yes.
Jon: [00:16:12] Fantastic. It is an honor and a pleasure to have this conversation with you. First off, as always, I'd like to thank you for your service, for all that you have done for this country and for us. I myself, I was in the Marine Corps during the first Desert Storm,
Tom: [00:16:28] Oh, yeah.
Jon: [00:16:29] And guys like you definitely paved the way for guys like me to come along and just follow in your footsteps. You were a very young man when you joined the army, like 20 years old, is that correct?
Tom: [00:16:40] I just turned-- Yeah, I just turned 19.
Jon: [00:16:43] Just turned 19.
Tom: [00:16:44]1942, yeah.
Jon: [00:16:46] Wow. So, what inspired you to enlist?
Tom: [00:16:51] I had a Hollywood version of what the war was all about. I had no idea what war or anything was really like. But we were all filled with enthusiasm in those days, young guys.
Jon [00:17:03]: Right. So, once you got in and got enlisted and did boot camp and went over, how did that change you as a person? Like, once you saw what war really was, how did that, I guess, inform these formative years of yours?
Tom: [00:17:18] Well, over a long period of time, it made me a pacifist and abhor the war.
Jon: [00:17:27] Okay.
Tom: [00:17:27] I was until after I'd been in combat for a while, and then I lost my very best friend, Roy Sanders, who was killed with 36th Infantry. It wasn't a sudden thing. It was like, over the years, I just thought that war was so useless. [Jon affirms] Nobody really wins in a war.
Jon: [00:17:51] What's one of your most vivid memories from your combat days?
Tom: [00:17:55] Our division was one of two that liberated Dachau, the concentration camp. And that is something I will never, never ever forget. It was just mind twisting to see people treated like that.
Jon: [00:18:11] Mm. Well, on May 7th of 1945, when Germany surrendered, with all you had been through, like, how did that feel to you? Do you remember that day?
Tom: [00:18:21] Yeah. I'll tell you, for one thing, the war was winding down. We knew the last week or so of the war, there was hardly any resistance at all. Germans were coming out of the woods with their hands up. Hundreds and hundreds of Germans trying to surrender. Had to be very careful. Some of them would come out of the woods, they'd get shot.
Jon: [00:18:41] Oh, wow. When you heard they surrendered, where-- I mean, you knew ahead of time. But when you got the official word was, was it just thoughts of like, “Oh, well, you know, we're heading home now”?
Tom: [00:18:50] Yeah. We were down in Bavaria, very close to the Austrian border in Berchtesgaden, which was Hitler’s Mountain Retreat. I had the privilege of going through that place too. That was really something to never forget. [chuckles] Everybody was on a rush. Everybody assumed that Hitler was hiding down there. When the war was ending, we ran a race after we left Dachau to get to Berchtesgaden to capture Hitler and Martin Bormann.
Jon: [00:19:28] Oh, wow. Okay.
Tom: [00:19:29] The French were also headed in that direction and 101st Airborne. The 101st Airborne got there first. So, they took over at Berchtesgaden. So, when we got there, we were swarming through the place like a bunch of locusts trying to get souvenirs. I did pick up a couple. But anyway, [chuckles] I heard a couple guys, “Hey, Sitter, Sitter, come in here.” I walked in this big bathroom. It was the largest bathroom. And we assumed it was Hitlers. They're both taking a leak into bathtub and I went with them. [
[laughter]
Jon: [00:20:05] I want to be known as somebody that pissed in Hitler's bathtub.
[laughter]
Jon: [00:20:11] Listen, I think you should get business cards [Tom chuckles], and that should be-- [laughs]
Tom: [00:20:15] Yeah, I thought they had that show on TV years ago, I've Got a Secret. I thought, like, get on that show. They never guessed in a million years what I did.
[laughter]
Jon: [00:20:28] Oh. So, after your enlistment was over, after you got out of the army, how was your adjustment back to civilian life?
Tom: [00:20:39] I got back because I hear millions and millions of young guys looking for jobs. Jobs are really hard to find, and you didn't have much choice. But we got out early enough in January of 1945. And the bulk of the guys getting discharged were still in service. So, we got ahead of a lot of guys. We were unskilled, you know? We had to take whatever job was offered. I was struggling along with a lot of other guys who did-- the skills that we learned in service were not helpful.
Jon: [00:21:13] Right. So, now, at the age of 98 years young, having lived through World War II and having served and having seen everything that's come since all of the other wars, what advice do you have for the younger generation or the world at large today?
Tom: [00:21:33] Oh, boy. Probably all the things that my mother has taught me. Try to be honest. Don't never lie to yourself. Many of us have done that. We've done things that were wrong and we lied to ourselves to do it. Treat people like you would treat themselves. I've learned to hate bigotry. I don't have much hate for a thing, but there's a lot of disgust for people that are bigoted.
Jon: [00:22:01] Which is something because we know World War II. I mean, part of what's at the root of that war is bigotry. At the root of bigotry is ignorance. And then, once you're around a group of people and you get to know them, then you're like, “Oh, wow, most of what I've been told isn't true.”
Tom: [00:22:15] Yeah, yeah.
Jon: [00:22:15] In the military, they would always say, “We're all the same in a foxhole. There is no black, no white. We're in here together trying to push toward the same goal.”
Tom: [00:22:27] Yeah. Right.
Jon: [00:22:28] Speaking of goals, I heard that a few years back, you won the StorySLAM in Madison.
Tom: [00:22:33] Yeah, I won. [chuckles]
Jon: [00:22:35] Fantastic. That's the best experience.
Tom: [00:22:38] Yes. I'm bragging now, but I was the first one ever to get a 10.
Jon: [00:22:42] Oh, I love it. I love it. You should put that on your business card. Urinator in Hitler's tub and the first person to get a 10 at the [Tom chuckles] Madison storage lamp. Well, Tom, thank you so much for your time today. We greatly appreciate it.
Tom: [00:22:57] It was nice talking to you.
Jon: [00:22:58] All right, Bubba.
Tom: [00:22:59] Oh, that was easy.
Jon: [00:23:04] To see some photos of Tom, head to our website, themoth.org/extras.
That's all for this episode. From all of us here at The Moth, have a story worthy week.
Davy: [00:23:19] Jon Goode is an Emmy nominated writer, raised in Richmond, Virginia and currently residing in Atlanta, Georgia. Jon's work has been featured on CNN's Black in America, HBO's Def Poetry Jam and TV One's Verses & Flow. He has written a collection of poetry and short stories entitled Conduit and a novel entitled Midas. Jon is a fellow of AIR Serenbe and current host of The Moth, Atlanta.
This episode of The Moth Podcast was produced by Sarah Austin Jenness, Sarah Jane Johnson, Julia Purcell and me, Davy Sumner.
The rest of The Moth’s leadership team includes Catherine Burns, Sarah Haberman, Jenifer Hixson, Meg Boles, Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham, Marina Klutse, Suzanne Rust, Brandon Grant, Inga Glodowski and Aldi Kaza. All Moth stories are true, as remembered by storytellers.
For more about our podcast, information on pitching your own story and everything else, visit our website, themoth.org. The Moth Podcast is presented by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange, helping make public radio more public at prx.org.