Host: Dan Kennedy
Dan: [00:00:01] Welcome to The Moth Podcast. I'm Dan Kennedy. And on today's episode, we have two stories for you.
The first one is from Diavian Walters. And Diavian was part of our high school GrandSLAM back in 2016, where she told this story. Now, keep in mind, as this story unfolds, that these stakes are basically the end of the world when you're in high school. Here's Diavian Walters, live at The Moth.
[cheers and applause]
Diavian: [00:00:32] Oh, my God. [chuckles] I feel like my heart drumming in my chest. [laughs]
[cheers and applause]
Okay. So, when I was younger, my mom was the only one to touch my hair. And that was one of two reasons. The first reason being I had partial alopecia. Meaning, that I had these bald spots that doctors told me I would never be able to grow my hair back, I'd never be able to braid my hair. I felt really insecure being a child, because I love my hair. [chuckles] But with some mom magic, it grew back. It grew back really healthy [audience laughter] and I was so happy, I didn't have bald spots anymore. But this leads me into the second reason why my mom only did my hair. Because thick hair and a tender scalp, it doesn't mix. [chuckles] It don't mix.
So, whenever I saw a comb, whenever she went to do my hair, “Come, let's braid your hair,” I would run and hide under the bed. There was no other option for me. [audience chuckles] So, at one point, we both grew tired of this. I grew tired of running from her when I saw the comb, she got tired of trying to yank my hair straight, because my hair was nappy when I was a kid. [chuckles] It still is. Thank you. It still is. She's like, “You know what? Screw it. I'm going to give you a relaxer.” So, I'm like, “So, you mean you don't have to comb my hair all the time? You don't have to braid it tight? I love it. Can we do it now?”
So, my hair is straight, and I like it for elementary school to middle school. It was in ninth grade when I went on YouTube and I started watching these natural hair videos, and I'm like, “Oh, my gosh. Look how nice this is. I want this.” The girl, she had such long, pretty, curly hair. And I'm like, “Your hair can do this? I didn't know that.” [audience chuckles] So, I'm like, “I want this. I want long, curly hair.” So, I decided to go on the journey to becoming natural. [audience cheers and applause]
And I transitioned. I decided that New Year's of that year was when I was going to cut my hair, because New Year, new me, new hair, right? [audience laughter] [audience applause]
So, I decided that that was when I was going to cut my hair. But it didn't work out like that, because it was around December 14th, and I was deep conditioning my hair and I just noticed how nice those curls look with the conditioner on it. And I was like, “What if I cut it now?” I look at the scissors that's on top of my mirror in the bathroom, and I'm like, “I'm going to do it.” I have to give myself a pep talk. Because if I don't, I'm not going to do it. I'm going to chicken out, and it's not going to happen. I'm like, “This needs to happen. My hair needs to be healthy.” So, I grab the scissors and I start cutting it before I tell my parents, before I tell my mom. I'm just like, “There's nothing she can do if she doesn't like it.”
Oh, well, because it's in motion. You can't stop it. You can't. [audience laughter] [audience applause]
So I cut the front of my hair, and I'm like, “Mommy, can you help me?” And she's like, “With what? Washing it out?” And I'm like, “No, I want you to cut it.” So, she's stunned, but she helps me. So, in the end, I rinse out the conditioner, and I'm like, “Where are the curls?” Like, my hair is no longer curly like I saw in the conditioner. It's poofy. It is shrunken, and I'm just like, “I didn't sign up for this. Where is my long, curly hair?” [audience laughter] I didn't see it.
So, I go to my mom and I'm like, “Do you like it? It's okay if you don't like it. You can tell me if you don't like it, even though I'm going to cry. [audience laughter] But you can tell me if you don't like it.” But it doesn't matter what she thought, because she's my mom. Your mom forever loves you, no matter what you do. It's your dad that's the problem. [audience laughter]
So, I go to my dad. I'm conscious of all the times he told me, “Your hair looks so much better when it's straight.” Or, “Your hair is so much better when your mom does it.” I'm nervous. I don't know what he going to say. So, I walk into the kitchen, I'm like, “Daddy, do you like it?” He looks at me and he's like, “What did you do?” And I'm like, “I cut it. It's healthy now.” And he's like, “You look like a mushroom.” [audience laughter] I'm like, “What? So, I'm a mushroom now. I guess he didn't like it.
At one point, I didn't like it either. But I remember it was summer youth, it was about last year, and my hair was shrunken and I couldn't deal with it, and I'm like, “This is crap. I don't want to do this.” So, I wet my hair, put some gel in it. It's curly, but it's not long. It's not the curls that I wanted. And so, I'm like, “Screw it.” I put the gel in my hair. I put it up in two bun-buns in the front. It's a half up, half down. I'm like, “This is going to have to do. This is going to have to get me through the day. It's hot. I don't want to do my hair.”
So, I tried to timidly walk past my dad through the kitchen to get out the door. I don't want to hear what he has to say. Last time, he called me a mushroom. I don't know what he's going to call me now. [audience laughter] I was right, because I walked past him, and he's like, “You're here?” I'm expecting him to be like, “Go fix it.” But he's like, “The buns, they look like ears. You look like a bear.” [audience laughter] And I'm like, “I'm a bear?” And I'm like, “Okay, I'll take that. That's a compliment. That's a compliment.” [audience laughter] [Audience [applause]
And I go to work. My friend who's working with me, she's Dominican. She got this real long spiral curl hair. I tell her every day, “If only I had your hair every day-- And she comes up to me and she's touching me, she's like, “Oh, my gosh, your hair is so pretty. Look at the coils.” And I'm like, “What do you mean? You sitting here with this flawless hair right here that took no effort, and you're talking about this hair that I did in five minutes?” And she was just like, “You shouldn’t embrace your coils more. They're so beautiful. I wish I had your hair.” I'm shocked. [audience cheers]
And I'm like, “You want my hair?” And I'm like, “Wow.” And so, now, I know that I can appreciate my kinks and my coils, that even though I was a mushroom, I am now a bear and this is great.
[cheers and applause]
Dan: [00:06:53] That's Diavian Walters. After Diavian shares her story, she came into The Moth studio and talked with Micaela Blei, The Moth's director of education and community.
Micaela: [00:07:03] Hi, Diavian.
Diavian: [00:07:04] Hi.
Micaela: [00:07:05] So, I had a couple of questions about this story, actually. I've heard it a few times, and I love it more every time. Did your dad hear this story?
Diavian: [00:07:13] No. [chuckles]
Micaela: [00:07:13] No. Your mom has heard this story?
Diavian: [00:07:17] No.
Micaela: [00:07:18] Your mom hasn't heard this story either?
Diavian: [00:07:19] No. But I told her about it.
Micaela: [00:07:21] Okay. Yeah.
Diavian: [00:07:21] Because she completely agrees with me. My dad can be very stubborn, and he often says the first thing that comes into his mind. It may not be the nicest, but you got to know where he's coming from with it. He truly does care about me. So, I know that the insult was a joke and nothing to personally affect me. And I told him that, that joke hurt me a while after. He did apologize, and he said, “I didn't mean it in that way. I was just playing around.”
Micaela: [00:07:58] So, how has the story changed for you, as you've told it over time?
Diavian: [00:08:02] As my story got older, it got bolder too. I bring up the issue with black hair on black women, because before, it was seen as very inappropriate to have cornrows, or box bridge or to have just a full-blown afro at work. It was something that I've never saw until I realized that this was an issue. So, now, I'm able to kind of address it and not feel like I'm going to say something wrong or someone's going to look like, why is she bringing race into this? So, my story can now be a little more political than I wanted to make it when I was in high school.
Because before the haircut, I was always very shy, very shutting myself in and I always told myself no, because I thought that my story wouldn't matter. So, when I cut my hair, I told myself that you're going to start telling yourself yes from now on. So, I honestly believe that I wouldn't be where I am now if I hadn't decided to cut my hair and decided to say yes. But now, I can truly say that my hair is never going to look like [unintelligible 00:09:07] 85, and I am completely okay with that. It's a relationship, so there are ups and downs. But it still worked out, and we're here.
Micaela: [00:09:17] Today, you've got this great-- You dyed it pretty dark red.
Diavian: [00:09:23] Yeah. [chuckles]
Micaela: [00:09:24] It's like just growing out, but I really like the look. And if I may say, I know it's in audio, but it does look amazing right now.
Diavian: [00:09:31] Oh. Thank you. [chuckles]
Micaela: [00:09:33] Cool. Well, thank you so much for talking to me.
Diavian: [00:09:36] Mm-hmm.
Dan: [00:09:38] That was Diavian Walters and The Moth's Micaela Blei.
Diavian is a born and bred Brooklynite and a psychology major at Mercy College. She aspires to be an art therapist, and she's been a teaching artist in The Moth education program. Thanks for sharing your story, Diavian.
Up next, a story from Lori Gottlieb. She shared this at a Moth Mainstage we did in Aspen, Colorado. It was in partnership with the Aspen Ideas Festival. And the theme of the night was This Mortal Coil. Here's Lori, live at The Moth.
[applause]
Lori: [00:10:12] So, I was 37 years old and I had just gotten out of a three-year relationship, which is terrible timing if you want to have a baby. I really wanted to have a baby, but I didn't want to just marry the next guy who came along. And so, I was in this kind of tricky situation that I guess can best be described as desperate, but picky. [audience laughter] And my friend Julie said, “You know, even if you don't find the guy in time, you can have a baby in time.” And the next thing I know, she sends me some links for some sperm donor sites.
Now, I had no idea what to expect. But I quickly learned that these mating sites, as I started calling them, ranged from high end FDA registered cryobanks to, believe it or not, discount sperm providers. I don't know, maybe it's me, but I just wasn't comfortable going to the Costco of semen. [audience chuckles] I will skimp on toilet paper, but not on the genetic material for my child. [audience laughter]
So, I picked one of the name brand sites, and I typed in my search criteria and every day all of these choices popped up. Did I want an MBA or a PhD? Did I want a lacrosse player or a literature major? Did I want a Truffaut buff or a guy in a band? It was so confusing, because weirdly enough, these donor profiles read just like dating profiles. And I'd already failed at those. But the good news was there were these women at the sperm banks who were known as the lab girls.
Basically, the lab girls meet the donors when they come in to do their thing. And unbeknownst to the donors, they give us staff impressions that we can't get from reading the profiles. So, things like, “He has amazing biceps.” Or, “He can be a bit scatterbrained, but eventually gets his stuff done.” [audience laughter] I loved having this behind-the-scenes personal reconnaissance. So, anytime there was a profile that I was seriously considering, I would call up the sperm bank and I would ask for this lab girl named Maureen.
Now, I would always ask for Maureen, because I trusted her to tell me the truth and tell it like it was. I remember the first time I sent her a profile and I asked if the guy was attractive in person, she said, “Well, he's not unattractive, but I wouldn't look twice at him in the subway.” So, I knew she was my girl. I also ran profiles by my therapist, because he knew my patterns, at the time, I had a thing for edgy but inappropriate men.
And so, when I brought in the profile of a guy whose favorite books were Lolita and A Clockwork Orange, [audience laughter] he just looked at me and shook his head. [audience laughter] He thought that a healthier choice would be the architecture grad student whose favorite hobby was renovating old homes with his wife. But I was like, “The dude is married. That is so creepy,” [audience laughter] to which my therapist replied in his usual neutral and nonjudgmental way, “How is having a baby with a married man any less creepy than having a baby with a teenager in college?” I had no reply, which is probably why I was in therapy.
Anyway, after months of going through this very exhausting process, I finally made a decision. Maureen from the sperm bank told me about a donor that she described as looking like a young George Clooney. She also said she really liked him, because he was always friendly and in a good mood, when he came in. She insisted that he had it all. Intelligence, charm, personality, sense of humor. And I found this funny at the time, given the context in which she was meeting him. She said that he was the whole package.
So, I checked out his health history and I read his essays. He liked Coldplay, I like Coldplay and I knew that I had found the one. I was so excited, because I was finally going to get started. I was finally going to try to have a baby. It was like the way my married friends felt when they would go off the pill and were about to have unprotected sex with their husbands for the first time. I am so psyched, and I go on the website and I find my donors page, and I find the little tab that says “Click to purchase vials.” And I click on it, and then my heart drops, because what happens next is a little bubble pops up that says, “Out of stock.” [audience aww]
Yeah. [audience chuckles] And I think that maybe this is just some strange computer glitch. So, I speed dial the sperm bank and they tell me that actually I picked a very popular donor and that they might not get more inventory for a while, because some people have placed him on backorder. And my first thought is, damn that, Mareen. Was she pitching him to everyone? Is that why he's out of stock? [audience chuckles] I am really, really upset, because once you pick a specific donor, you start to picture a specific baby. And now, I have to let that baby go. After all that it's taken to come this far, now I'm back at square one.
So, my donor's out of stock, I've just turned 38 and I am out of time and I'm trying to figure out what to do next. Because if my plan A had been to grow up, and fall in love, and get married and have a baby, and my plan B was to grow up and inseminate myself with a 19-year-old sperm from the internet, I can't even imagine what my plan C might have to look like. [audience chuckles] And that's when I see on my desk this business card that I got from this super-hot 27-year-old filmmaker from Harvard that I had spoken to for about five minutes the week before at a professional networking event.
And in that kind of delusional state that can only come from this dangerous combination of intense desire and intense fear, I decide that I should just cut out the middleman, forget about the sperm bank, and I should ask him to be my donor. I think this is a brilliant plan, except for the fact that I don't know how to ask. I've never even asked a guy on a date before, and so I wonder what the etiquette is for asking a guy to be your sperm donor.
I choose email. [audience laughter] I sent him this cryptic email, “Hey, remember me from that networking event?” I tell him that I have what I artfully call an unusual question. I ask if he'll meet with me. And so, we set up a meeting for Friday at noon. So, on Friday, I walk into the appointed place. It's this trendy cafe called Earth with a U. I see Andrew and I'm a little bit nervous, but I also have a plan. And my plan is that I'm going to make small talk for a few minutes, you have to break the ice with these things, [audience laughter] and then I'm going to launch into my prepared speech, which is the perfect combination of poignant and straightforward.
The only problem is that it becomes very apparent very quickly that Andrew thinks we are on a date. And it never occurred to me that he would think this was a date, because he's so young and he's so gorgeous and he's so tall and he's so completely out of my league, but I'm also having so much fun that I'm forgetting why we're there. And so, about an hour in, I am completely taken by surprise when he leans into the table and he looks at me with those swoon worthy chocolate brown eyes and he says, flirtatiously, “So, I'm really curious. What was your unusual question?” Oh my God. [audience chuckles] My mind goes completely blank.
And then, I have this sudden epiphany that my brilliant plan to ask a total stranger to be my sperm donor is actually quite insane. But I'm willing to be insane, because I want this baby so badly, so I just go for it. I start awkwardly mixing lame metaphors, like not having all the ingredients for the recipe with-- It's like donating a kidney, but without removing the organ. And then, I'm like, “Oh, I shouldn't have said organ.” And then, I'm like, “It's like donating blood, but with sex instead of needles.” I look at Andrew and he is staring back at me and I think, life does not get more humiliating than this. [audience laughter]
But then, it does, because [audience chuckles] my metaphors were so awkward that he has no idea what I've been trying to ask him. [audience chuckles] And so, I just say, “Look, I am 38 years old, and I really want to have a baby and I'm wondering if you would maybe consider donating some sperm?” And this time, I know he's got it, because his entire face changes, and he freezes and his mocha chai latte is literally suspended in midair. We sit like that until he finally breaks the silence and says, “Wow.” And then, he says, “I wasn't expecting that at all.” But then, he says, “But I'd be willing to talk about it. Cool.”
So, over the next couple of hours, Andrew and I become oddly intimate. We discuss everything from our childhoods to our future dreams. It's like talking about sperm has broken down all the emotional walls, [audience chuckles] like after you have sex with somebody for the first time. By the end of the coffee, he says that he's going to give it some thought and by the end of the night, he sends me an email that says, “So far I am a yes, but with more questions.”
So, we decide to meet again at Earth. And in fact, over the next month or so, we meet at Earth so often that I start calling Earth my sperm office, [audience chuckles] and my friends start calling it simply Sperth. [audience laughter] And at Sperth, we talk about everything from medical histories, to semen samples, to anonymity, to whether we should have the doctor do the insemination or whether we should have sex to increase my odds of conception. He picks sex. [audience laughter] He does.
I am particularly psyched about this development, [audience laughter] because I know that I will never again, for the rest of my life, have the opportunity to have sex with a movie star gorgeous, 6’2”, 27-year-old with ripped abs and chiseled cheekbones and Brad Pitt's hair. That will never happen. And so, I am psyched, but I'm sad. I'm also obsessively watching the clock. And one day at Sperth, I tell Andrew that I'm about to get my period, which is always a super-hot thing to say to a guy. I tell him that if we are going to go forward, we have exactly two weeks to make a decision.
Now, I know that sounds like a lot of pressure to put on a guy, but you have to realize that at this point, we have nicknames for each other and we know the intimate details of each other's lives and we have inside jokes and we've explored everything that could go right or wrong with the donation and we've talked about what a blessing this child would be. He thinks I'm courageous, and I think he's generous and it's a total love fest. I'm sure he's going to say yes.
So, the next day, we decide to take a walk and iron out the final details. And on the walk, it unexpectedly starts raining. Andrew has his big oversized coat. And so, he takes half of it and he puts my left arm in one sleeve and he puts his arm in the other. Because he's a full foot taller than I am, we're walking diagonally like this. That's the moment that he confirms that he is in it is a definite yes, and we are going to go forward. And I am elated. I am standing there getting drenched in the rain in this coat with this man who is going to give me his sperm. I think about how I can't wait to tell my child this story one day. And then, Andrew disappears.
I don't hear from him for three days, which might not sound like very long, but when you're 38 and you're about to ovulate and your only other baby option is on backorder, three days is a fricking eternity. I'm trying not to get stressed out and read into this, because stress is bad for conception. But I know something is up. And then, he calls me and he leaves a message and he says that we need to talk. And whereas we used to just say, “Hey, it's me,” now he leaves not just his first name, but his last name. And that's when I know that the unthinkable is about to happen. I am about to be dumped by my donor.
When I walk into what I know will be our final meeting at Sperth. I see Andrew at our special little sperm table over there. And the minute I sit down, he starts spewing the breakup cliches. “It's not you, it's me,” he says. “My life is just so unsettled right now that I thought I could commit, but I'm not sure. And for your sake, I don't want to string you along.” And then, the kicker, “I hope we can still be friends.” [audience chuckles] I look at him and I say, “That's okay. There are other fish in the sea.” I make that terrible pun, because I know that if I don't, I will burst out crying in public. But inside, I am dying, because this is now the second baby that I have so vividly imagined and that I will now never meet or hold in my arms.
And so, I go home and I decide that I have to take a break from this whole sperm donor thing, because it is just too much heartbreak to bear. So, I ovulate and I get my period. If you can't follow the biology, don't worry about it. [audience laughter] Whenever those diaper commercials come on, you know, the ones with the adorable baby butts, I have to grab the remote immediately and turn off the TV.
About a month later, I force myself to go back online and start looking for a new donor, when Maureen from the sperm bank calls. She tells me that somebody has returned a vial of my first choice donor's sperm, the one that she said looked like a young George Clooney and was the whole package. I'm not sure how I feel about returned semen. [audience laughter] At Whole Foods, you can't even return any personal hygiene. [audience laughter] But Maureen assures me that it's still sealed in its nitrogen tank. She says that if I want it, I need to let her know right now.
So, that winter, I have the baby. When he's old enough, I buy him one of those. "Where did I come from?" books, but this one's written specifically for sperm donor kids. It's called I'm a Little Frosty. [audience laughter] I start reading it to him and he says, “Wait, I thought this was going to be about a snowman.” [audience chuckles] And I say, “Well, actually, this frosty book is about the time that mommy needed to get some special seeds to make a baby and the seeds needed to be frozen.” He stops me and he says, “I was frozen?” And I say, “Well, a part of what was used to make you was frozen.”
He gets this huge smile on his face, and he does a little fist pump like LeBron James does when he scores a three pointer and he says, “I am so cool.” [audience chuckles] I look at my son, who by the way does look like a mini version of George Clooney, and I think about how I never could have realized back when my relationship ended at age 37, or during all of those baby discussions with Andrew or that devastating day that I was dumped by my donor. I never realized this, but it became so clear to me right in that moment, this magical child is the whole package that I'd been searching for all along. Thank you.
[applause]
Dan: [00:25:00] Lori Gottlieb is a psychotherapist, and New York Times bestselling author. She writes the weekly Dear Therapist advice column for the Atlantic. Her next book, Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, will be out next spring. It's been years since Lori shared her story with us, but she wrote in to say that she and her magical child are doing well.
That's it for this week's episode of The Moth Podcast. The Moth Radio Hour returns next week. If you'd like to see pictures or any extras from the stories that you heard today on the podcast, just visit our site, themoth.org.
Mooj: [00:25:36] Dan Kennedy is the author of Loser Goes First, Rock on and American Spirit. He's also a regular host and storyteller with The Moth.
Dan: [00:25:44] Podcast production by Timothy Lou Ly. The Moth Podcast is presented by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange, helping make public radio more public at prx.org.