Host: Kate Tellers

Kate Tellers: [00:00:03] Welcome to The Moth Podcast. I'm Kate Tellers, your host for this episode. 

Every week in 2022, The Moth has been celebrating its 25th Anniversary by revisiting our history, counting down year by year. In this episode, we're bringing you back to 2003, when we made our first appearance at the US Comedy Arts Festival in Aspen. It's here that we met comedians like Janeane Garofalo, Mike DeStefano and Anthony Griffith and Mike Birbiglia, you'll hear from him later, who would become beloved members of our Moth storytelling community. In honor of that, we're doing something a little different today. And to kick us off, let's listen to some standup from our storyteller for this episode, Meg Ferrill. 

Meg Ferrill: [00:00:45] So, let's just get this out there. [audience laughter] Go too far. I look like Ellen DeGeneres had a baby. [audience laughter] With a baby. [audience laughter] I'm aware of it, y'all, thinking it is fun. came here to laugh, so I might as well bring that up first. In fact, I was getting off stage the other night, and the MC said, “It's good to see that the kid from Jerry Maguire is doing something.” [audience laughter] 

Here's the thing, guys. I do look young. And most people, when I show them, my idea are like, “One day, you're going to love looking young.” I'm sure a few of you guys get that, right? One day, went to my girlfriend's work event, went up to the front desk, said, “hi, I'm here to see Jen.” That moment, Jen came up, she was like, “Hi.” I was like, “Hi.” Lady behind the front desk says, “Oh, Jen, is this your son?” Oh, you're supposed to laugh. [audience laughter] 

It's okay. I do my part, you guys do your part, right? [audience laughter] We got the rules, right? I'll just be up here chuckling all night to myself. [audience laughter] 

Kate Tellers: [00:01:55] Standup comedy and storytelling can look very similar. In both settings, one person stands on stage with a microphone and speaks to an audience from their own point of view. But as we've seen so many times at The Moth, what might lift the roof one stage bombs on another. But this is The Moth Podcast. So, let's get back to Meg Ferrill and that incident at her girlfriend's work, this time as a story that she told at a New York City story slamming, where theme of the night was Childlike.” Here's Meg. 

[cheers and applause] 

Meg Ferrill: [00:02:29] There are two things about me that my entire life have caused most people massive points of confusion. That would be my age. And until I grew my hair out, my gender, two minor things. [audience laughter] Now, my age, I'm 36 and I am forever being ID'd, which I don't mind, because I'm someone who follows rules, I fricking hate people who cut lines. So, I don't mind. It's your job, right? But the thing I don't get is the question when people are like, “What's your trick?” And I'm like, “I mean, I can tell you, guys. It's really simple. It's DNA.” [audience laughter] Yeah. It's not like I was 12 and I was like, “You know what? I really like this look. So, I'm just going to sit and in a salt bath every day [audience laughter] for the next quarter century.” It's not that. 

But gender is my own fault, because I've always walked the line like Johnny Cash did. There's this infamous picture in my family's house of me, and my four siblings and the three boys are wearing button ups and a Minnesota Vikings jersey. We're not from Minnesota. And my sister's wearing a unicorn sweatshirt. And then, I'm just in the corner wearing full head to toe camouflage. [audience laughter] So, I'll totally take credit for the gender thing.

Now, I think that pretty much catches us up to present day in this story. I'm 29 at the time, and I'm living in San Francisco, and I'd been dating my girlfriend for a year and we're living together. That was an applause break. [audience cheers and applause] 

That was like a major achievement at the time, guys. I know we just met you know where I live, but that was a big deal. [audience laughter] And so, my girlfriend, she's a do-gooder by profession. I have a job, and she saves the world, and I save money for the bank account and that's how it works. I'm cool with that. At the time, she's working for this non-profit environmental organization that basically goes into impoverished communities and tells them about all the problems that major corporations are causing in their area and helps them fight them. It's a very laid-back chill job. 

And so, you can probably imagine that Earth Day is like the day. [audience laughter] Forget about whatever you experienced in middle school, this is the day for them, right? We're talking like nontoxic face paints, recycling exhibits. Because let's be serious, how much can you have fun without destroying the earth, just between us? Think about it. Like, boats, airplanes. Yeah, there's sex, but think about sex on boats and sex on airplanes. [audience laughter] 

We don't have to tell anyone about this, but I'm right and I don't bring it up often to her either, but I'm right. But anyways, so she was like, “Babe, you totally have to come to Earth Day. It's a major deal.” And I was like, “Babe, I'm totally there.” We don't talk like valley girls, but that's just to protect our privacy, [audience laughter] even though you all know where I live. [audience laughter] Troutman in Central. I'm just kidding. No, actually, that's true. [audience laughter] I'm not a very good liar. 

So, I was like, “Yeah, I'm going to support you. I am there. This is your community.” Like, “All of your coworkers will be there. I'm there.” And so, she left to, I don't know, prepare the face paints or whatever you do in this situation. I was getting ready. I should tell you, guys, later, after Earth Day, we were planning to attend a pool party. I like to dress for occasions. I call my particular style, Cherub chic. And so, she was like, “We're going to this pool party.” And I was like, “I got it, babe. I look good.” 

And so, I'd picked out these short, short red shorts. They just felt like right above the knee. [audience laughter] A tank top, and some flip flops and this little red Diesel backpack that I bought at $10 at the outlet. I don't want you guys to get the wrong impression. I'm not someone who likes miniature items. I don't have pug figurines on my bookcase. [audience laughter] In fact, if you commented like ill on my backpack, I would maybe punch you in the face. [audience laughter] That's not something someone who likes miniatures does, okay? So, I just want to set that straight. I don't want you thinking the wrong thing about me.

So, I get the outfit on and I'm feeling really good. I'm starting to get a little nervous, because it's going to be like, all of Jen's coworkers, all of her community she works for. So, I show up to that gate, and I've got my hands latched in my backpack and I'm like, “I'm going to kill them with my smile. I'm going to prove that I'm worthy to date this do-gooder, even though I have a job and I like money a lot.” [audience laughter] So, I show up to the gate. I'm smiling and I'm putting it out there. There's this beautiful woman, she's probably 65, and she's like, “Welcome to Earth Day.” And I'm like, “Thank you for having me at Earth Day.” Because sometimes I say awkward things when I'm a little nervous. 

And so, then, I look over her shoulder, and Jen starts approaching and I'm like, “Hey.” And she's like, “Hey.” And the woman looks at me and she smiles. And she looks at Jen and she smiles more. And then, she looks back at me and she smiles more, and she's like, “Oh, Jen, is this your son?” [audience laughter] It's one thing to be told, you look like a child. It's another thing to be told, you look like your lover's child. [audience laughter] And it's another thing to be told, you look like your lover's son. [audience laughter] I'm wrong in so many, many ways. But it must have been right in some way, because you know how most girls grow up and marry their dads, I grew up and married Jen, my mother. [audience laughter] Thank you. 

[cheers and applause]

Kate Tellers: [00:08:59] That was Meg Ferrill. So, what's the difference between standup and storytelling? We decided to ask Meg, but we didn't stop there. We also reached out to some of our favorite comics/storytellers to hear what they had to say. Here's Meg, Hari Kondabolu and Ophira Eisenberg. 

Meg Ferrill: [00:09:16] I came to The Moth, because I was actually really frustrated in my standup. Well, I sucked and [chuckles] I felt like I was flailing around the stage in terms of the material I wrote. When I think about standup, I think of it as like a gladiator sport. Especially, when you're starting out, people are getting tricked to come to show to see you with drink tickets that they're handed out in Times Square. Some want to be there. Some don't want to be there. They all want 60 laughs per second. So, their expectations are high. Standup was just a hard place for me to figure out me on stage. 

And then, there was a Moth, which is a totally different experience. The audience is, most people know, is very loving and supportive. They don't know if you're funny, and they're also not expecting it. They don't really care. They're just here to hear a really good story. I think it took some pressure off of me to sit in that environment and try it. 

Hari Kondabolu: [00:10:20] Oftentimes in standup, they tell you to cut the fat. Meaning, that just try to get to that punchline as quickly, as efficiently as possible. Make sure there's enough information for the joke to work. The fact oftentimes is the tastiest stuff. It's the most interesting stuff, but it's unnecessary for the goal of standup comedy. But when I'm telling a story, all of a sudden, I get to put that stuff in, and I think that my stories are much more three dimensional when I'm telling them in a storytelling format with a different set of expectations. 

Ophira Eisenberg: [00:10:58] The thing I love about standup, of course, is just the immediacy. You get up there, you've crafted jokes, you've written out ideas, you have takes on the way we live on your own experience that you've put into a joke form, and you're in front of this audience, and you throw it out there and you get an immediate response. What I love about storytelling, I say these are different muscles in the same muscle group. So, storytelling allows vulnerability. I don't think standup allows vulnerability in the same way that storytelling does. 

Hari Kondabolu: [00:11:33] In standup, we fudge the truth a lot, because again, the goal is laughter. I do believe in this idea, with standup, this is something my friend Nato Green said once, “We skew truth to bring out greater truths.” I'm paraphrasing that, but the idea being that even if you play with details, you do so because there's something bigger to say there. 

With storytelling, the goal, I think is to be honest, to actually share your life with people and don't worry about laughing. It's about truth. That's really admirable. And to have an audience that has that expectation for truth as opposed to simply where-- It's not to insult standup. But to have an audience that has the goal to hear truth and not have the expectation to just laugh, it changes the thing altogether. It changes what the performance is. And I really appreciate that. 

Ophira Eisenberg: [00:12:37] I guess I consider myself a standup comic first, just because I've been doing that for so long. But I often say storyteller now-- You can say storyteller and people understand what you mean. I don't know if there's one that I prefer. I think I would like to say insurance salesman when I'm at a cocktail party, because sometimes you don't feel like getting into the next part of the conversation when you say I'm a comedian or storyteller. You just want to talk about other things. [laughs] 

Meg Ferrill: [00:13:12] I think I thought I was a comedian and then I thought maybe that I was a comedic storyteller. And now, I'm may be confused, or I'm more of a storyteller who tells some funny bits. I don't know. [chuckles] But I do think that doing storytelling has definitely made me a better comedian. 

Material wise, I figured out that even in standup, I need a point, a theme or something to carry the audience through my set. It really helped me understand how to build my set differently. I think before, I was flailing around, not knowing what I was talking about or switching topics, and there was no higher, greater denominator. That's not really a word. There was no higher goal, I guess.

Kate Tellers: [00:14:00] That was Meg Ferrill, Hari Kondabolu, Ophira Eisenberg. We wanted to dive a little deeper into laughing at The Moth. To do that, our artistic director, Catherine Burns, talked a bit with one of our longtime storytellers. Here's Catherine in conversation with Mike Birbiglia. 

Catherine Burns: [00:14:15] So, let's talk about how we first met, which is your very first Moth. All the way back in 2003, The Moth was making our debut at the Aspen Comedy Festival, which I think was called the US Comedy Arts Festival officially. I'm right, this is your first time actually telling a story versus standup. You didn't know it at the time, but it was my first time directing a story. 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:14:39] Yes. And you taught me how to tell a story, and it ended up being a story that I told as part of my solo show, which is now a Netflix special called My Girlfriend's Boyfriend. You coaxed me into telling this story. I always tell young storytellers tell the story that you're uncomfortable telling, and you convinced me of that. 

Catherine Burns: [00:15:04] Are there things that you love about storytelling in the sense when you're on [unintelligible [00:15:09] your Broadway stage doing a show versus when sometimes you run around practicing chunks of it over years and years and years in comedy clubs. Is there something-- 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:15:20] I like both of them. For development, they're both really interesting. The Moth audiences over the years, I found to be a mixture of those two things. I think there's a conviviality to The Moth and a supportiveness that you almost don't find anywhere else on the planet. I think as seminal as the storytellers are to The Moth community, I think that The Moth audiences are equally seminal. 

Catherine Burns: [00:15:49] Amen. Yeah, I believe it's Bliss Broyard, who's a longtime storyteller and founding, like, board member. At every single Moth, she feels like everybody's holding hands under the table. 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:16:02] Yes, exactly. No, it couldn't be more true. It’s like, the more that an audience indulges going there with you on something that's challenging for you to tell, the more the looser you get as a storyteller, and the more you open up to them. So, it's this mutually helpful experience between storyteller and audience. 

Catherine Burns: [00:16:25] I think that's true. I think the storytelling audiences reward you for being vulnerable- 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:16:29] Yes. 

Catherine Burns: [00:16:30] -in such a huge way that comedy club audiences don't always-- [crosstalk] 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:16:34] No. No, no. [laughs] 

Catherine Burns: [00:16:35] Especially if you don't know what you're doing. [crosstalk] 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:16:38] No. It's funny, because even when I told I did the cemetery show a couple years ago with you, the outdoor cemetery Moth show. 

Catherine Burns: [00:16:47] Yeah. 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:16:48] It was really interesting, because I was telling a story that I'd worked on in clubs and theaters and things like that, about the YMCA pool. It's actually a story that's in my new show. Actually, when you were working with me, you were like, “You might want to pull back that joke or pull back that joke.” At the time, I remember thinking, you know, I'll do it, but I don't know if that's exactly right. And then, sure enough like, I did the show, and I was like, “No, Catherine’s absolutely right.” Ultimately, The Moth audience is willing to laugh, but I feel like The Moth audience is really interested in what's next. 

Catherine Burns: [00:17:29] Yeah. I think that's true. I actually recently identified a new storytelling problem. [chuckles] There were some people who approached storytelling as, “Here is a string of jokes I want to make and I'm going to choose a narrative to let me hit every joke.” Whereas the funny people who are really successful at The Moth do just the opposite. They're like, “This is a story that I want to tell, and I'm going to include the jokes that actually support it and are very organic and just go into it. But if there's a joke that takes me out of it, actually the jokes are there to support the story and not the reverse.” 

And so, when I realized that, I was like, “Now, I have to go back in and see if I can get some of them to work.” But yeah, it was interesting. 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:18:09] No, it's funny, because in a Moth story, I feel like the mark of a successful comedic Moth story, is that there's three or four jokes that land, as opposed to a standup act where it's like, you better have a joke every 30 seconds. 

Catherine Burns: [00:18:25] Totally. And a big laugh or else it's over. 

[laughter]

Mike Birbiglia: [00:18:27] Yeah, totally. 

Catherine Burns: [00:18:29] It's very true. Do you find one genre or the other to be more honest? 

Mike Birbiglia: [00:18:38] That's a great question. I've never really thought about that. I think there's something about The Moth audience where they crave confessions. There's something about confessing something to an audience. In my case, with that first story, it's like my first girlfriend in high school told me not to tell anyone that she had another boyfriend. And that's embarrassing. [Catherine laughs] 

Literally, I had never said that to anybody before. I told close, close friends. And in the case of the sleepwalking story that I told years later, I jumped through a second story window and it's like, that's a confession. I sleepwalked through a second story window. It nearly killed me. I was really embarrassed that people would judge me as having this thing that was terribly wrong with me. I think that I find that The Moth environment fosters that a confessional format. 

Catherine Burns: [00:19:47] Yeah. 

Kate Tellers: [00:19:49] You can find stories from every comedian we spoke to for this episode on our website. Now, I'll tell you a little more about each of them. 

Meg Ferrill is a Portland, Oregon based storyteller, comedian and writer. Meg was selected to perform at Upright Citizens Brigade's Stand Up Smackdown, Mortified, an amateur night at the Apollo. She is a five-time winner of The Moth StorySLAM and holds two GrandSLAM titles. Meg has nabbed a mention in the New York Times, and even caught the attention of documentary filmmaker, Morgan Spurlock, who cast Meg in his Webby nominated series Failure Club, a year-long online documentary featuring seven people pursuing lifelong dreams and conquering the fear of failure in the process. 

Hari Kondabolu is a comedian, writer and podcaster based in Brooklyn, New York. The New York Times described him as one of the most exciting political comics in standup today. In 2017, he released his critically acclaimed documentary, The Problem with Apu, which helped spark a global conversation about race and representation. His standup special, Warn Your Relatives, is available on Netflix. If you want to see him live, he'll be performing live on October 9th in Des Moines, October 13th through 15th in Denver, Colorado and on October 27th in Ithaca, New York. More information at harikondabolu.com. 

Ophira Eisenberg is a standup comedian and writer. She hosted NPR's, Ask Me Another for nine years and is a frequent host of The Moth’s StorySLAMS in New York City. Her new podcast, Parenting is A Joke launches October 18th and is coproduced by iHeartRadio and Pretty Good Friends. 

Writer and comedian Mike Birbiglia is best known for his one man show, Sleep Walk with Me, called Simply Perfect by the New York Times. You can also see his new Broadway show, The Old Man and The Pool. Previews begin October 25th. You can learn more about it at mikebirbigliabroadway.com. Mike has been a part of The Moth community since 2003 and also contributes to this American Life. 

If you'd like to learn more about storytelling, humor and so much, check out our latest book, How to Tell a Story, available wherever you get your books. Just go to themoth.org/books and we'll have all the links. We couldn't close out this Moth episode on comedy without a Moth joke. So, here are my kids.

Kate Tellers’s Kid 1: [00:22:12] Why did The Moth nibble a hole in the carpet? 

Kate Tellers’s Kid 2: [00:22:22] He wanted to see a floor show. 

Kate Tellers: [00:22:24] Very good kiddos.

From all of us here at The Moth, have a story worthy week. 

Marc Sollinger: [00:22:31] Kate Tellers is a storyteller, host, senior director at The Moth and coauthor of their fourth book, How to Tell a Story. Her story, But Also, Bring Cheese is featured in The Moth's All These Wonders: True Stories about Facing the Unknown, and her writing has appeared in McSweeney’s and the New Yorker. 

This episode of The Moth Podcast was produced by Sarah Austin Jenness, Sarah Jane Johnson, Catherine Burns and me, Marc Sollinger. The rest of The Moth’s leadership team include Sarah Haberman, Jenifer Hixson, Meg Bowles, Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham, Marina Klutse, Suzanne Rust, Brandon Grant, Lee Ann Gullie, Inga Glodowski and Aldi Kaza. All Moth stories are true, as remembered by their storytellers.

For more about our podcast, information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org. The Moth Podcast is presented by PRX, The Public Radio Exchange, helping make public radio more public at prx.org.